Season 3 Episode 36 - Who does number two work for?
We are in between Monza and Baku so find ourselves in a break week.
After the fall out from Monza in regards to the Oscar vs Lando situation, we decided to take a look at different ways in which teams have structured their teams down the years in terms of a clear number one and number two versus trying to balance two number one drivers.
To kick things off the guys review the weeks news and then catch up on Fantasy from Monza which hadn't finished calculating at the point of recording last weeks race.
Then they take a look at the driver pairing situation before rounding out on a preview of Baku.
The running order of this episode is:
1) News and Social
2) Fantasy Update from Monza
3) Team orders and driver pairings
4) Baku Preview
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Transcript:
Brian: Hey now, welcome to the dirty side of the track America's leading formula one podcast I'm Brian that's Rob. It is the off week in between Monza and Baku. We're happy you've joined us. How are you Rob?
Rob: He was loving the fact that we got the intro back again this time.
Brian: So excited from Monza. You didn't know where you were. Hey now the first time in Formula one stuff. I'm not you. Welcome.
Rob: I've got to go back and listen. I'm not even sure you started with Hey now. It might be the first time in your dirty side career where you've been the host and not used. Hey now, I'm not sure.
Brian: Anyway, I got that out, but we'll see.
Rob: You definitely didn't get the name of the podcast in. I know that bit for sure. Anyway. Yeah, you're right. So off week. So we've got news and social. You've been extremely busy at work. So there's nothing in the vault this week. We will update fantasy because we didn't get a chance to do that last week because we were recording so quickly after the race. Then we're going to have a little look at a topic that's been kind of hot this whole week really, which is the issue of drivers.
And should you have a one to driver or should you try and juggle to number ones and we'll have a little debate on that and then look at the history of it as well. And then we will finish with a black group preview because we're back on track next week.
Brian: That's about that. Good to me. I will say Will Buxton did kick off that whole one, two team orders thing while we were recording last week's pod, while we were sitting here so excited about the race. He went heavy on F1 TV live after the show about that, after the race about that.
So we can get into that in a little bit. But as we speculated here, 10 second penalty for the driving standards Kevin Magnuson was using. We both thought he'd get those two penalty points and I thought I was on 10. I was right. So we knew that would be 12. And now, well, no Kevin Magnuson in Baku, right?
Rob: Yeah. Yeah. He hit the 12 12 points in a calendar year. So automatic race ban. Gasly actually fair play to Gasly jumped to his defense and when that contact was nothing, it was just wheel to wheel action. And he said that he would happily visit the stewards and encourage them to roll back the decision later. But I think it's like any kind of decision in sport, whether it's an umpire, referee or whatever, they don't change their minds. So yeah, K-Mag will sit out and no sooner had the speculation started coming as to who was going to take his seat. They pretty much quickly said, yeah, it's going to be Bearman, which makes absolute sense. He's going to be driving for the team next year. So why would you pick a rando to come in and do it?
Brian: And I mean, obviously with the Ferrari engine, borrowing someone from the Ferrari Driver Academy, your guy for next year, it just all ties together too perfectly. Pierre, can we go back to that? So I don't have a problem with Kevin's ban. Like those are the rules.
He's had some stuff through the year that he got away with even. So I'm like, you know, this feels about right. And they are the rules. I like Pierre's move here. This is a total sap move. This is a, the decision has been made.
There's no way they're going to change it. But let me be the guy who says something nice that means nothing. And just toss it out there for a second and be like, oh, I'd go see the stewards and tell them to roll it back. I swear.
And then I'm going to do anything. It's an invite. It's an invitation. We're having a party. I'm inviting you the day before you know you're not included. That's what he just did. He invited himself to the stewards.
Rob: I'm not sure. I don't have to look at the timing and see if he said he would do this before they announced the disqualification. I think this was right after the race.
Brian: I think the gas and just pulled a fast one there and I love it. I'm here for it. Yeah.
Rob: So you're so cynical. 100%. Jaded and cynical, Mr. Sap. Talking of cynics out there. Talking of cynics out there. Everybody about the Mercedes front wings are, you know, they're too bendy. They're not supposed to flex like that. So I think mainly Red Bull and probably others had lodged sort of a complaint and the FIA just kicked it into touch and went, nope, they pass every single test that we do for bendiness. When we do a bendiness test, they pass.
And I was following, I can't remember who it was, but I was reading a good article online, which was that their front wings might bend too much, but right now they bend in a way that allows them to pass the test. So if anything, the FIA's tests aren't enough. But while those tests don't exist, and there was only one test for it, which is a test the way they bend in a certain set of criteria, and they are not bending outside those rules, they've not done anything wrong. They've just done one of those classic, not, it's not even exploiting a loophole. It's just developing around the regulations.
They've developed wings that look like they do flex a bit when you see all that on board, and the straights, they do seem to flex, but they're not flexing in a way that breaks any rule. And I think it's just bitterness from the other teams going, oh, why didn't we think of that?
Brian: 100%. I actually do think this is one of them. I'm going to predict here something. We will see more stringent explanation of the requirements and tests in the off season for 25, because I do think they're going to legislate this out a little more, because they, but it's within the rules. So they can't change the rules midway. And so I agree with you.
I think it's a little bit of sour grapes. And I do look forward though to the off season technical directive that describes the flexi wings. And if I please never again see four cars front nose cameras all at the same time, and then people pointing at one, that's the McLaren, it's bending too much, and they just keep playing the tape. I'm done. I'm done seeing the four nose cameras piled up as they go around the same corner. I don't care.
Rob: I care if they're bending more than the rules allow, because then you can actually put it stuff it.
Brian: Let's move on. Exactly. Exactly.
Rob: Moving on, like you say, Frenchman. I can never do these.
Speaker 3: You don't give me foreign names in here. No, come on. I can't you went to France and you speak French. So according to you, Louis Sarah.
Rob: Yeah, let's go with it. Okay.
Brian: The former 52 year old formerly performance director Mercedes will place Enrico Cardillo, Cardillo, who left in July to join Aspen Martin as chief technical officer. I actually saw the press release and forgot to grab it on this. But Ferrari had a fantastic press release on this. It was like written with their hand in the air shaking it as they held their thumb to their fingers. It was just like you could hear the person saying it.
It was just so Italian. But speaking of people in chairs, the one that is still open for 2025 in the driver's market is Audi. And so, Sauber Audi. And they're debating apparently the driver route to go.
And depending on who you read, when you read it and where you read it from, there's different versions of what they want. Do they want seasoned experience? Do they want somebody who's been on the dirty side of the track?
Rob: This is Faltri Bottas and you're listening to the dirty side of the track.
Brian: I don't know why you wouldn't want Valtteri. If you don't want Valtteri, you could at least go with another driver who happens to be a world champion as well.
Speaker 3: This is Jacques Villeneuve and you're listening
Brian: to the dirty side of the track. Jack may be a little old, okay? So I'm gonna say that. But Valtteri has that experience going on his side. Or do they go with youth? And there's a question on the youth side.
There's a few names who are just kind of being bandied about Gabriel Bordoletto, who's second to F2, Schwartzman, Maloney, or Teo Porsche. So I guess we'll find out. And interestingly, you know, you see the news. Oh, Valtteri had breakfast and coffee with Matteo Bonotto and then dinner with Matteo Bonotto. And then Matteo Bonotto was talking to this other person. And I mean, who knows what they say. It's one of the top priorities at Audi at this point. I guess we'll see when they make the announcement unless Paul gives us a hint in advance if he knows anything. Paul?
Rob: Yeah, I mean, obviously massively biased because of Valtteri coming on. But if you're looking to try to get the car early in the new regs, get the feedback, you know, set it up for success, it feels like you kind of want two people that are very good at giving feedback about a car. Apparently the Hulk is very good at it.
Valtteri is very good at it doing it at Mercedes apparently. So why wouldn't you kind of use those elder statesmen now in quotes given that they're both younger than us?
Brian: Everybody's younger than us. I think Jack Vile is younger than us, probably. But why wouldn't you? If you're especially Audi fresh coming in new, can they risk a rookie in their opening season because they kind of need this to look good for all the money they're pumping into it?
I think they need points finishes now. I don't know. I don't know.
I really don't know. Obviously, I want it to be Valtteri, but I just don't know which way they're going to go on this one. I mean, just really fast. I think the only way they put a rookie in is if they're throwing away 25 and just focusing on 26. And I don't think Audi would throw away 25. Haas did. Others have, when regs change, I don't think it and Audi can just walk in and throw away a season for the next one.
And you nailed it. If they're getting the 26 car, they're allowed to start working on it. I think they're going to want like January 1st of 25. If you get that going with the current drivers, you get feedback for you. You know, when you get it in the sim and other things before it's actually constructed, you definitely would want someone of the talent of a Valtteri next to a Niko as opposed to a rookie who's never been in the F1 car before. So exactly. Yeah.
Rob: So it might be something like if I'd love to see them give him like a, it'll probably like a one plus one deal and see how he goes next year with a maybe a plus one on top of that. And then if they get themselves established, then they can decide where they want to go because then they'd probably have two older drivers where you do start thinking, well, maybe we need to bring a youngster in. But at least then you'd have had maybe one, two seasons of Niko and Valtteri head to head to see who's shaking out the fastest in there. Unlikely that they're going to kick the German into touch, but being a German team, but you know, depends, you know, results me more, I guess, at the end of the day.
Brian: Did you see the rumors about Seb about possibly a Vettel return in that?
Rob: That's just nonsense. That's absolute nonsense. There's no way he's coming back.
Brian: You might as well say that Niko Hackenin's coming back as well. I was intrigued for about three seconds. Anyway, Stefano Domenicali ruled out a fourth US race for now in F for Formula One at a press conference. He was asked about the US. Is there more races in the US?
It's not true. Three races in the US is perfect. This is exactly what you and I talked about with Paul and that huge gap after Singapore. And Paul had always called it, you know, the fourth US race. He figured or whatever the mystery race, he had a name for the folder on his computer. I can't remember if it was mystery race or fourth US point being there was a huge gap in the 24 calendar and a lot of people in F1 obviously thought there'd be a race slotted in there. Maybe it would have been in South Africa as well. Turns out it's nothing. And we get a very long fall break, which I don't, I'm not ready for that.
Speaker 3: I can't. I'm not ready for another break. I barely got through the last one without F1. How I got to do it again.
Rob: Oh, poor old Delonso. He had his nice shiny Aston Martin Valkyrie delivered to him. He took it out for a spin in Monaco. And he was, I believe, less than an hour into driving it, maybe minutes into driving it when it broke down.
And they came out and they had all these like technicians looking at it, trying to see what was going on. And yep, then he had the great, great looking image of his car being loaded onto the back of a truck to be taken away. Oh man, you get a supercar like that delivered and you literally drive it for about 10 minutes.
Brian: I mean, that's not even a supercar. That's a hypercar. A hypercar, sorry. And well, I'm just, you know, for the car nerds like me, we're doing it right. But agree with you. Can you imagine that? $3 million car and then like, yeah. And it's obviously something important. It's not like the ashtray is broken on the inside and like, oh, we got to send it back to the factory for that.
Rob: Better news for Aston. Final news story of the week that we found. Looks like all the rumors are going to be true. That was swirling around. Happenstroll has broken out his checkbook. And for the small little sum that I would not get a bed for of 30 million a year, Newie is going to be wearing the green of Aston Martin next year.
Brian: That's a lot of wedge, Brian. That's so much money. And we kind of knew it was going to Aston Martin, but it's still worth while giving one of these. Congratulations to Papa Stroll. Lance Stroll's father, Lawrence Stroll, father of the year, as we've said. Lance, I'm going to get you everything you want. You want to be an F1 driver? I'll buy you onto a team. Lance, you want your own team? I'll buy my own car brand and then buy my own team for you to drive. And then, by the way, I'm going to make sure we get you a world champion teammate. And then after that, maybe what we could do is we could look around and say, okay, let's bring in the best car designer in the history of F1. We'll do that. What's next? Like, are they going to create their own track? Are they going to buy Kota and then test there? I mean, what is next?
Rob: So I don't want to get into the tinfoil hat of Red Bull's demise over the last few races. Just to kick at the edges around that. I saw an interview and I'd missed this news completely. So I know this is probably really, really old news. They're talking about Nui and talking about what led to him leaving Red Bull and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there was an article I read about him getting quite annoyed that as part of when they were looking at the upgrades for this year for the Red Bull, he advised them not to go in a certain direction with the development for the upgrades. And because he's more in a consultancy capacity at Red Bull, they ignored him and they carried on with their upgrades.
Now, the upgrades we're seeing on the Red Bull at the moment are the infamous Aston Martin downgrades from last year. They've been terrible. They've destabilized the car.
They've dropped all this time. We've seen McLaren and Ferrari and Mercedes being able to bring it to Red Bull. And now with what I saw from Helmut Marco this week, they are desperately trying to work backwards through the downgrades to work out which one they need to take off to try to get back some of the stability they had in the first few races.
Because what they're saying is that all the lap time they're losing, this instability has come into the car. They can't nail it through the corners. They've almost got to like lift and post around the corners.
And then once they're pointing straight again, then they can floor it again, which is why they've been pretty good in the speed traps, terrible around the corners. I'd miss that about Nui apparently, advising they didn't go in that direction for the upgrades.
Brian: I missed it as well. I missed it as well. And if that's true, why would you not listen to them? Maybe that's the reason you left. Who knows? Who knows? But it'll be fascinating to see. And we know it's not instantaneous. So I think it's a 26 at best, right? Because hypothetically, they can't work on the 26 car until Jan 25.
Rob: So we'll see. And also Adrian's got to go pencil shopping. He's got to go and buy his new pencil.
Brian: Same notebook, new pencil, rocking up with a new shirt on. And here we are at Aston Martin. As Rob said, I did not have time this week to do a video vault apologies. I'm in the midst of a very intense bit of travel. I got two more weeks coming up. But we do have a fantasy recap, and I'm going to combine the things that are fantastic, the video vault and the fantasy recap together. So let's open the fantasy recap.
Rob: Fantasy recap.
Brian: It's a great day. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And here's the final result. And so that was Paul and so anyway, kudos to Adam.
As I said already, when we looked at Mons 309 points, Chicago GUNR atom, he may have used the 3x chip to get there. So as I told him, you're like the Jose Canseco of the fantasy F one league, you use a lot of steroids to barely pull out in front. You don't know who Jose can say goes is is it baseball, baseball? Oh, yeah.
Oh, he's a pop culture figure as well. Anyway, so after that, we had Wastar Royco Busan, we had Aussie fans F1 Mark, Kimmy Hakkinen, Niku, we had team minimal effort Lee, Sangaucho F1 Manuel, TMV Racing Reloaded, Tom, professors B team, Raqesh, F1 Fantasy Hub, Rob, and the M team, AOL. Two 59 points for AOL from 309. So pretty tightly bunched the top 10 kudos. I finished 12 last week with 250 for so not too far behind. And where were you at? I didn't scroll.
Rob: I was a bit further back because I went against all my principles. I in our video, I predicted McLaren to be one too. And then in my fantasy decided I needed some Mercedes exposure.
So got rid of Oscar got rid of Oscar and bought Lewis in. So you really hedge your bets everywhere, don't you? Oh man. So I did all right. I think I was knocking at the door of 200 points.
So I wasn't a million miles away, but far enough down. But yeah, it's just but it's getting fun. It's just so much fun doing the fantasy stuff now because you haven't got a clue anymore. There's no now.
I will get a little bit. I'm not annoyed about it. I just think that they need to find a better way of dealing with the Logan Sergeant situation because it just seems a bit not wrong or against the spirit of the game. But it is now basically everybody can keep Logan in at 4.8 and know that he won't crash and won't give you a negative points can bring color pin to him because he automatically gets the same price as Logan. So you can get four to 4.8 million drivers in there. Um, but you're not really got all of your drivers because you totally do it.
Speaker 3: It's weird. I don't know what they would do about it. But all those people are that guy and there's nothing wrong with people doing the way the game is designed. But they should come up with a better way of almost forcing you out auto swapping him for color pin. So or just delete them.
Brian: It's too late. Color Pinto won up half a million dollars now.
Rob: No, when he first came in, when he first announced they could have done the switcheroo
Brian: right there and then they should just delete Logan and tell players you have to have a full roster. It's stupid. But it is there and that gives us the season number in first place. We have a very, very tight top of the leaderboard. Busan, Waystar, Royco, 3,504 followed by one point. Andy Tales, Tales I Win. And if you remember the summer break, it was like six points.
So that is a serious battle going on there. Niku with Kimi Hakkinen, Fakri with Merkstappen, Manuel Sengatu F1, Usama with Phoenix AMG, Farees, Petronas RT, Michael, Downforce 1, Mike, Yank the Mike, 3,414 points in ninth place, and Fantasy HQ, Adam and 3,364. So I'm not doing great this year in our league. I'm 20th. And I'm only about 3199. So what is that 200 points?
Not even 175 behind 10th place. So I can make that happen. I have almost all my chips left. So I'm going to see what I can do. And I looked Rob, you're actually doing really well. For me, I am. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob: 26 top half, 26. And my ability to catch you all comes down to good old lady luck. And if when you play your three times, it blows up in your face. And when I play my three times, it goes brilliantly. I think I stand a chance if we're equal on our three times, or it's me that looks out on the on the three times, then I got no chance. I think the three times chip is a big cast, a shadow over my ability to catch you.
Brian: It's going to be pretty fascinating. I can't wait. And one stat from last week, just before we close out last week and get into our topic of discussion. But because it's a great stat, and because it is team minimal effort Lee, I'm going to use I think Eric, whoops, I'm going to use that I was going to say this one is what I meant to click. Saps stats week delayed Monza edition. Thank you, Lee.
I love this stat. This came from Will Buxton originally post race was asked when was the last time a driver's first two wins in a season had been in the countries who whose anthems were played in the correct order for that driver and team. This is a great one because obviously, Charles this year one at Monaco or eighth race of the year, and then one at Monza the 16th race of the year. And so the order of the anthems is played team driver and then team. And so, so it went Monza, sorry, Monaco Monza.
And so it was perfect. And then what's fascinating is the first two times that was one was eighth and 16th. This happened in 1993 for Senna. And it was the second and third races of the year. He did it a little faster.
If you remember how good he was in 93 inter Lagos, of course, he's from Brazil. And then he was driving from a clarin at the time Donnington Park. By the way, Donnington Park, I know it's a real track, but every time top gear went there was sponsored by Simply Sausages.
And I always just think of Simply Sausages, Donnington Park Simply Sausages. There were 16 races that year. There are 24 races this year. Charles won the eighth and the 16th. Will he win the 24th to make it every eighth race or will he win before then Rob? That's an actual question for you. Do you think Charles will win before the last race of the year in Abu Dhabi?
Rob: I don't see Charles winning again this year.
Brian: Oh, no. What? No, you did. No, I feel like I should do.
Rob: Only because and I would absolutely love to be wrong as the Ferrari fan in the house here, but I've seen this way too many times that they come with track specific upgrades to put on an amazing show at Monza and then fade into the background for the rest of the season. Now, some people are saying, no, these are more than just Monza upgrades. This Ferrari is packed, baby, and it's going to be fighting at the front for the next few races. Can't wait to be proven wrong, but I've just got that whole Monza cynic in me where they just pulled all the stops for Monza, and then they're going to revert back to being in that like fifth and sixth finish in there every race. Well, McLaren may be red bull if they can sort things out and definitely Mercedes duke it out for the rest of the season. That's I want to be wrong, but that's where I am.
Brian: I actually don't know if it's such a sure thing for Mercedes, but I agree with basically everything else he said. I think Mercedes may be battling Ferrari for like fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, kind of eighth areas.
But I guess we'll see. It's going to be a fascinating rest of the year. And you know, interestingly with Charles and Carlos, you have two good drivers battling each other. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the topic we have this week?
Rob: Yeah, so I could not believe how much drama it caused online for Oscar and Lando and whether, you know, McLaren screwed it up.
Speaker 3: They should have had team orders from the beginning and Piazzari should never have put that move on Lando.
Rob: Wow. And what I realized, and this has probably happened like forever, but I always found my way into F1 through teams have always been a Ferrari fan. I've always liked Williams just because of the good old blue and yellow livery back in the day, the Mansel driven. So I've always kind of followed teams and then drivers come and go. If I get the perfect moment where one of my favorite drivers drives for my favorite team, then fantastic. But I don't like if my favorite driver is was say, Carlos, and he leaves Ferrari and goes to Williams, I don't suddenly then not be a Ferrari fan anymore and follow my driver only, but there are a whole bunch of people out there that do that. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
But I just realized it's kind of a completely different view on the way that you embrace the same sport. Me, it's a team sport and drivers come and go, just like in American football in English football, players come and go, but you support your team. I'm more of a driver guy, believe it or not. I know you are. I know. I know. So when you that as the backdrop, I think that massively influences all of the views that are coming up this week.
So me as a team person, I'm looking at this and going, Hold a minute. McLaren just happened to be in a position where they've essentially got two very evenly matched drivers. Landers maybe a bit ahead of Oscar, despite what I said last week in the heat at the moment. But I should go get the replay of that. Well, but from killer instinct perspective showed what he's made on that on that turn four pass, right? And McLaren, McLaren don't care which order they finish in because they want to finish ahead as long as both McLaren's outscore those Red Bull cars, then McLaren are going to get the thing that they really want, which is the constructors title. But when you try to discuss that online, people know, no, no, no, you know, this is nuts. McLaren need to be going after the driver's title.
They could get both. I said, well, do you remember when Paul came on? And he said that the end of the 21 season, when Max had won the drivers and Mercedes had got like the millionth straight constructors title, they were out having a party celebrating the title and he ran into some friends from Red Bull and they're like, what are you celebrating for? And Paul went, well, we won. And the Red Bull guys were like, no, we won. And he said it was a very bizarre moment because he said Red Bull are almost the only team on the grid who actually the opposite way round and see the drivers title as the Holy Grail. Every other team on the grid is after the constructors title because that's where the money is as well. And it's also a nice reflection for the whole staff that they all came together and got two cars to get enough points together to win the constructors.
Brian: And plus most other, the most other constructors also make cars or have a car tie in Red Bull is an energy drink, a sugar, a can of sugar water. And, you know, Mercedes makes cars and Aston Martin makes cars, even if they don't make their own engines here and, you know, Alpine and Renault make cars and engines and so on and so forth down through the grid and Ferrari, of course, being the best example. So it's like, you know, you look at that and I think there's something to what you just said. There's the, what's the, what's the point, right? Yeah.
Rob: So if you're McLaren, would you, I mean, they've said outwardly, oh yeah, we're going to take a look at this, we're going to consider team orders. I think that's just to almost calm down the storm that's hit them after at this last race because if you're sitting in the number one seat there, organizing McLaren right now, do you? Because Oscar's not mathematically out of the tile.
If he was, I think it's a completely different story. If Oscar is mathematically out of catch in Max, then I think it almost even Oscar would hold his hand up and go, I'm now wingman because there's nothing else for me, you know, I can't achieve anything different. And I know it's a long shot.
I know Oscar's way behind, but he's with, with Max struggling, if he carries on struggling like that and he can be his own teammate often enough, there's something in that all McLaren have to do is just make sure they don't fall over each other trying to do this. Right.
Brian: I mean, I agree. Yeah. I totally get your point. And here's the other part of it, right? Oscar is a very talented young driver. He's in a second season in F1. They poached him from Alpine when Alpine famously put out a tweet that you'll be driving for us and he goes, no, I don't, I don't think I will. And you know, it's very often copied and discussed tweet and to make him the number two driver when he is driving so well and, and winning races, you can discuss that win again if we have to reopen that thing.
But when you look at it like this, I think it would be super detrimental to the Oscar, McLaren relationship unless Lando was clearly that much better and he's not, he's not. I'm going to steal something from a little later. We'll get into it. But the McLaren situation, I found a note on it on Reddit in Formula Dank subreddit. Y'all want Piastri to be Batas when Lando isn't Hamilton.
And that's right. Because Lando isn't Hamilton. He doesn't have that killer instinct. He's not a champion.
He's not head and shoulders the team lead from before and for later. And so I, I don't know what people expect Oscar to do. And if I'm Oscar, I would be unbelievably upset if they told me I have to defer to Lando when I still have a mathematical shot. And even when I don't, I'd be shocked if they, you know, unless Lando's closer has a chance, if they told him not to race, what he has to do and Wilbuck's in the one thing I did like what he said, is there something you think in the contract that says he'll be treated as a number one as well or that he won't be treated as a number two? Because Mark Weber is his agent and Mark Weber, you know, famously had this on the radio and I'll get it right this time.
Speaker 3: Not bad for a number two driver. So I don't know, Rob, what do you think on those things?
Rob: Yeah, I mean, I right now do think it is a McLaren zone making. So they have to choose what they nothing wrong, unless he did have a clause that he was supposed to be a number two driver, he's breaking that, but I would massively doubt that.
So let's just say Oscar's doing nothing wrong. On the other side of the coin, Lando, I do feel sorry for because he stuck with McLaren when they weren't very good and could see maybe the long term vision that Zach Brown wanted to take. And I reckon Lando could easily have been poached away by one of the other teams. But he didn't. He doubled down, he committed to McLaren. He's probably got every right to feel like that he is the number one driver there because of that. He's done the time, he's been with the team, he's helped bring it to where it is now and now reaping the rewards by getting some race wins.
So I can totally see why he would feel like, well, back me, I'm the shot at going for Max. I honestly think that you've got a McLaren situation where all they want this year is the constructors title. They want to try and come out of this without destroying the relationship between their two drivers because they know that if they can keep this pair together, then what they'll probably have to do in the off season is we've talked about them maybe being ahead of where they ever expected their wildest dreams that they would be fighting on both title fronts this year. And I think it's caught them out of surprise a little bit. bit, you maybe would say, let's say as you kind of get into the off season, you're looking for next year, that they have one of those, what apparently was always at Mercedes, which is let them race up until X point in the season. And if one of them is a decent chunk ahead, that's it. You're now going to be wingman for the rest of the year.
Brian: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, Pappaya rules may only work in the race. But what you say, I think works in the macro sort of season as well. And okay, let's talk about Lando. I think he is, if you asked me or any, I think a lot of people, you'd say he's the number one driver at McLean. If you had to pick one, the tide is probably changing. You're probably seeing more Oscar votes than you would have a month ago, you know, six weeks ago, two months ago. However, what has Lando not been given? Like, why does, why would he feel as though he's been done dirty? Because Oscar won in Hungary, they boxed Lando first.
Rob: No, I think Monza, I think if it's true that they had this conversation of whoever makes the first corner is the deal breaker.
Brian: So then he's supposed to stop racing the rest of the race.
Rob: I think they were wanting to bring home the one too because so I listened to 72
Brian: laps or whatever the hell the number is, they're not allowed to race.
Rob: Well, maybe who knows? I mean, at least not like that, at least not a move. If you're McLaren looking at that, if you're McLaren looking at that corner for overtake, from a driver's perspective, brilliant overtake hangs it around the outside, great forces Lando to either bail or take them both out. And he's obviously not going to want to take them both out. So, but the aggression that he did it with meant the Lando falls behind Charles. And that totally, totally then made the whole thing that we saw unraveled before our eyes in terms of that one stop possible, had those two led away. And even if they were racing each other, but if they just spent the first couple of laps building a Delta out to Charles and had gone toe to toe, maybe later in the race, or whenever, I don't think Ferrari's one stopper works. And I think as a McLaren organization, they did lose points in the constructors title, they didn't maximize what they could have taken.
Brian: So, and you nailed it last week, I think maybe as a segue into some of the one twos throughout time, you nailed this. And I think it was our sound bite even, which got a lot of traction on Twitter, which was if it's Schumacher in the first car going into turn four in Monza, if it's Hamilton, if it's Max, do they leave the door open for their teammate to sneak through or to put them in that position? And the answer is no. The answer was no for us, no for everyone on Twitter and no for everyone I've talked to about it.
Rob: So you're right. And that's what got me thinking after kind of pulling apart where do I see McLaren being that then got me thinking of well, down the years, how many times have we had teams that have successfully balanced like, let's call them two number one drivers, even if we think Oscar is probably 1.5 or two, we'll call those two number one drivers. So how many times has it worked? How many times have you always had kind of clear number ones and number twos?
So I kind of got my internet sleuth hat and kind of trying to find what I thought were some of the biggest examples. We could do the clear number ones and twos first, which is pretty obvious. So Schumacher and Baracello, I, you know, almost the it's a me of clear number one, number two, I think Schumacher had his contract that he was the number one driver and Baracello was lucky to shine his shoes. But in the they were together for five, five years, I think 104 races together. Schumacher was champion four of those five years. Baracello managed to get a couple of seconds, but was always miles behind Schumacher. 104 races, it was 76 wins. 76 times Michael Schumacher out finished Baracello and 79 25 in quality. I mean, it was absolutely like totally one sided. Baracello didn't seem to mind too much, maybe other than Austria 2002, where they famously told Baracello to pull over and give the win to Schumacher on the last lap, which I think left a better taste in a lot of people's minds in the sport. And I think led to team orders being banned for quite a while before it finally came back like 10 years later or whatever it was.
Brian: So well, that was also the same season where Michael trying to make up for it. I think he'd either already secured the drivers championship was indie, right? Where he pulled over and slowed up and said, we should go across the line together in his mind. And we had the two Ferraris literally in formation at the indie track coming across the start finish line. I mean, basically, you know, the same exact, the same exact time.
So it was pretty fascinating to watch that. And I think Michael, I'm looking back here, I think he did, I believe have it wrapped up. But it was just like him trying to make up for that when it didn't matter. But you know, he was trying to say Rubens, you're an amazing driver too. Rubens was an amazing driver. He was favorite video game drivers. I've said on here many times I was always Rubens in the Ferrari because it's felt like those Yankees, if I was Schumacher, I couldn't go with you know, come on.
Rob: And I often wonder what would social media have made of that if it was around at that time? Because if you were a Barrakello fan, I can't imagine that you'd ever get that angry of having to play second fiddle to Michael because that was what the team was set up as the team was built around Schumacher. And almost Barrakello, you just lucky to be in this team. And you might win a couple of races. But this is all about Michael and getting Michael over the finish line first. So I'm not sure we would have seen any of that kind of debate because it was a very clear one two. When you get the stats of clear one twos, this one was kind of shocking. It's almost copy and paste in the record books. Hamilton and Valtteri, 111 races together compared to the 104 of Schumacher and Barrakello. Schumacher won it four out of five years. They were together. Hamilton won four out of five years that he was together with Valtteri. If we said that Michael and Beat Valtteri, at Michael Beat Barrakello, 76 to 27, Hamilton beat Valtteri 74 to 25.
I mean, it's just copy, paste. But again, absolutely clear one two. There was never any doubt that it was going to be Valtteri taking the lead in that team because that team was basically built around Lewis at the time. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it. It was just the way that team was created. So there was never any team orders worries really because that's how you guys are going to come home given the opportunity.
Brian: I mean, you say that, but there were situations that we both remember where Valtteri bristled at times at some of the calls. There was one where he was going for a fastest lap point that Lewis needed and Lewis had had and Valtteri's out there and they're basically pleading with him to abandon the fastest lap, which was crazy. There was a couple of times where they swapped positions so Lewis could catch people. But if you remember, Lewis gave some of those back when he couldn't catch somebody and Valtteri literally went past him at the end and said, thank you, Lewis. That was very gentlemanly to do, even though they had a Bentley agreement. If Lewis can't get him, we'll give it back. But he actually did it. And so, yeah, totally hear you. I did not know the similarity of the record.
Rob: I know. That's why I'm scary. It is bizarre. And I'm kind of bringing it forward to the most recent before we go all the way back in time. But the most recent obvious number one and number two is Max and Checo. They've had 82 races together and it's 71-11 to Max. And Max has been the champion every year they've been together.
Brian: It's not three quarters, one quarter. This is 10% situation here, maybe 12%, 14%. That's crazy. Yeah.
Rob: But again, absolutely. Teams built around Max. Checo knows his place. Well, he did in the last couple of seasons. He knew that he was supposed to be in Wingman. Now he's kind of got fed up being Wingman. So he's just in the midfield just pootling around and seeing what he can do.
Brian: But I thought you'd go on a different duration.
Rob: And then if you really want to go back to kind of people going on about team orders and number one drivers getting special treatment, it's not a new thing. 1951, San Gio won twice in a... I love the fact they could do this back.
You can't do these these days. But San Gio won twice in a teammate's car. Where was it? The French Grand Prix at Arim in 1951. San Gio's Alpha Romeo broke down and Luigi Fagioli was asked to pull over and let San Gio finish the race in his car. Yeah.
Brian: First of all, who would ever see an Alpha Romeo breaking down? Oh, I'm just kidding. And then, ooh, second of all, I love this. And you remember these cars right for anyone listening to me?
Not. They looked like bathtubs and they had a little seat in the middle and they had a lap belt and you wore a leather helmet and goggles. That was it. So I don't know how people didn't just fall out of these things. Absolutely insane. So it wasn't like a custom fitted seat just for you.
Rob: No, exactly. You know, it didn't take long to get in or out of these things. Exactly. And then it happened again. This is I love this little story that I found was in 56, San Gio took Ferrari teammate Luigi Musso in Argentina, took his car, if he went, then in Monza, San Gio's car broke down again and Musso refused to give his car up this time. He's like, come on, dude, you're not having my car again. So Peter Collins, or I haven't looked into this, I assume is his teammate as well, because back then I think they had like three cars driving for them here.
Collins, who was in with a shout for the the driver's title, if he's car up to Fangio, who went out and sealed his fifth world championship. That is team orders.
Brian: That is designated driver number one. That is team orders. If I were Peter Collins, I mean, maybe he called up Fidel Castro with some information a little later next year. Here's where he is. If you need to find him, I'm just kidding. That's an off-color kidnapping joke.
Rob: Yeah, well, you see, you know, they just left it and let people dig into themselves.
Brian: People may not know what happened to Fangio. Go back to our sales.
Rob: Right. Okay. So that's the real obvious number ones, number twos, where if you're the number two driver, you just literally were not getting anything past your way. If the number one driver was still going, what about trying to balance two number ones together and how often has it happened? And it's probably happened way more than we found, but like most of the ones that we find don't end well.
It's not a happy camp. And the numbers of races together are nowhere near the amount of races together we kind of see from the traditional one too. So I started with the Hamilton Alonso, right? 2007, only 17 races together. Alonso thinks he's in there to be the big man on campus and got this rookie. It was 2007 was Hamilton's rookie season.
Yep. So any comes he's probably going to show him the show him the ropes, but no, 17 races together. It was 10, seven to Alonso in beating Lewis, but points wise, they finished dead level at the end.
They had found this quote that said their relationship at McLaren is often cited as one of the tumult. I can't even say that word. It's just hard. Most tumultuous partnership formula one.
Yep. They were both treated as equal number one drivers by McLaren that created tension. Alonso was not expecting this. He's a two time world champion at the time and he wanted to be the primary, but he could see that they've kicked, they picked this kid from, uh, they're putting all their eggs in his basket as well.
And that was it. Alonso just left after one season to rejoin Renault. It's like, no, not a chance because he could see the right hands on the wall and the team was going to start coming around. Uh, Hamilton. So two alpha males there and then he's not staying, not staying.
Brian: I mean, I, I, it's a famous, right? Conversation because two amazing drivers that are still on the grid today, whenever it comes up, the fact that they've raced on the same team at one point, Lewis's rookie year. Uh, and I think, I know we say this, that Alonso says it's water under the bridge and you know, he has all these nice things to say about Lewis now. And when they talk, they seem all right with each other.
But for me, the team radio messages from Alonso about Lewis and the heat of the moment, things like this. What an idiot. What an idiot. Um, this one here, this guy only knows how to drive.
Speaker 3: He only knows how to drive. There's a laundry list of these from the last few years, few years. I think there's still bad blood between these two guys, or at least from the Fernando side for the way he felt treated. So I agree with what you said, totally tumultuous, great example of one of more recent one of people who could not get a long and I still don't like they like each other. But what do I know? I'm just a fan looking at it from the outside. Yeah.
Rob: And then I'm sure this would be on everyone's bingo card of teammates that didn't get on. Uh, 1988 and 89, 32 races together between Senna and Prost. Oh, um, Senna destroyed Prost in quality.
It was a 28 for to Senna. Um, it was only 1713 in races between the two of them. Uh, and they just, oh my gosh, they just clashed at every possible moment. I think it kind of all came to a head in 89 and Imola, um, teammates, they said that whoever led after the first corner would not be challenged.
Um, but at the restart center was like, yeah, I don't think so. Sweat past Prost won the race massive row. And it just, it just went downhill, like fast between these two and was left for Ferrari in the end. Um, and I, there was a lot of things after Senna, uh, passed away that, you know, they would interview Prost and ask him about him. And, you know, and then it was kind of a bit more grown up and like, oh yeah, great driver, great guy. But at the time there was just two amazing drivers and trying to balance having two amazing drivers at the same time of that level. It just, it's just never going to end well.
Brian: I mean, they had a litany of coming together as on track as well. Some of them on the first, first corners where they would like purposely run each other off the road and things and see if the other would give.
Rob: Um, yeah, there's one where Senna, yeah, they ran it. You've run Senna, didn't you run him off the track and then he crashed out, but he managed to get going again. And we went on to win the race.
Brian: One of those little tighter, but it was a first where they just went straight into each other. And then the part Prost was, you know, famously is famously a bit of an, uh, almost use the word we don't use on the dirty side, a bit of a tough to deal with fellow. And so I think you're right.
As age has come, he's kind of softened a little on that, but that was his, his MO and I don't think Senna would back down from anybody ever. And so the two of them together just, I don't think it worked. So I think you nailed it. That's probably the most famous set of oil and water teammates.
Rob: Yeah. Two more that we found. Um, the next set are actually apparently according to all sources, wouldn't say they were best buds, but they seem to actually tolerate each other a bit more, which was Damon Hill, Jack Villeneuve in 96. Hill was the reigning champion. Uh, Villeneuve came over his first season F1, uh, coming across the pond. Um, eight seven in races, pretty tight, but I think William saw enough in, uh, Villeneuve that he renewed Hills contract despite the fact he was the champion.
Brian: The world champion renewed won the world championship in 96 with this rookie who's figuring it all out, came over from Indy Cardi, just won the Indy 500. Or if you don't listen to our, our interview with him, the Indy 505, you'll have to go figure out what that means. And I was, I still am shocked to this day. They let the champion walk away. And I mean, it worked because Jack won the championship the next year. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm with him.
Rob: Heinz Harrod came in, didn't he?
Brian: Yes. Heinz Harrod, Frenzen, exactly. Was his teammate at Williams and, uh, went down to the last race, which we talked about with Jack, uh, as well. And, um, I just, I, could you imagine if Max wins the championship this year, somehow hangs on?
Okay. And he wins the championship this year, the drivers championship. And Red Bull like, nah, you can leave. We're not going to, we don't want you anymore. You're out of here. You're going to keep checkers.
Yeah, exactly. I'm okay. Checkers not Jack. So that doesn't work. But, okay. Flip it this way.
Let's, there's a better analog in there and that'll I think about it. McLaren, let's say Lando wins this year, which he can do. Yes, he can do. Yep. Yep. And then McLaren's like, yeah, we'll keep Oscar.
You can go drive for someone else next year. Could you imagine what would happen if that happened to today's environment and social? I think the internet would break. Twitter would go down. They'd have an outage if McLaren told Lando to leave with his championship. There's no way.
Rob: And then last but not least, I kept this one into last just because this one had the most quotes about it where both drivers absolutely hated each other. It's 1986, 87 31 races together. It's PK and Mansel. Mansel has him in I think 1813 in qualifying and PK 1514 in races.
And these two were both so well matched that they just kept taking points off each other race after race after race after race. Williams did not. It was it Williams? Yeah, I've got to say, Muslim Williams, right? It wasn't Ferrari at that time. I'm not sure. I might mess that up.
Brian: Whichever team driving a car with four wheels. But was he there then too?
Rob: Anyway, no, maybe it's maybe it's Ferrari. I didn't write it down and my brain is letting me down right now. So we'll just say they were both in cars with four wheels and they were racing each other. The team did not give any team orders whatsoever. They basically we got two number one drivers let them duke it out so much to the point. Frost basically went, huh, well, you guys are going to keep taking points off each other.
I'm just going to come sneak in through and take the title. And that's exactly what happened. They had two drivers in PK and Mansel who either of them in the better car that should have been wiping the floor with cross could have easily won the title, but they refused to give team orders. They said we got two number ones and prost prost sorry. But this is the bit that makes me get all right. And this is there's loads of these if you want to go and find them. But PK hated him and Mansel and in a in a magazine interview said all these detrimental things about him and then decided to throw in that he also had an ugly wife. I mean, when you go after the wife, you know, you are man.
Brian: That's pretty bad. Although I think we've heard PK say a lot of other things recently where he's been banned from going to races because of the stuff he said about other people. So it's not like Nelson PK is, you know, Mother Teresa over there.
Rob: Well, the Mansel's view of him and I love this, this is very British. This is very British insults. He never really says anything bad about him. He says he's got all the ingredients to be a great person. It's just that he chooses not to be.
Brian: That's fantastic. And by the way, the best part is we sit here and we talk about PK on this side of it. And we kind of let Mansel do his thing. Mansel, if you remember, famously team hopped throughout his career because he always felt like the underdog or treated as the number two. And regardless of how the racing went on track, he would just leave. He didn't like his teammates. He didn't like the way he was treated.
He basically was like the first F1 Karen. And he's like, I don't think you're giving me enough mechanics. I'm out of here. And so he did that. And again, check our veils tales on Mansel because that was pretty fascinating. And I know we talked a little bit about that last week with the quiz on the grill, the grid when he was an aerospace engineer. And we knew that because of the work we had done on that veils tales. But that's awesome, Rob.
These are some good examples. So we've had this conversation. I still don't know the answer, McLaren. I think the answer is win the constructors championship, keep the two of them as happy as you can throughout this year. And if you get a few more races in and Lando really has a chance, then you got to tell Oscar. It's now team orders, not just papaya rules to bring home the championship, it's team orders for Lando. But until we get to that point, I think you still got to let them race my humble opinion.
Rob: Well, I agree. And if anyone else knows if you're screaming into the radio at the moment of a pair of partnerships that we didn't name, I tried to when I was looking for the two number ones, I didn't look at any of the midfield stuff.
I really wanted to kind of look more up towards the front where race wins or champion ships are on the line. And those are the most I found. And if you look at them, the most anybody ever stayed together as two seasons, center and process 32, or yeah, 32 races, PK, Mansell 31.
And then it's done, it's toast. You start looking at these and you're thinking, there isn't a big history of managing who number one drivers over an established period of time. If you're lucky, you do it for one, two season, then boom. So if we look at that now, and McLaren let Oscar and Lando race next year up until a point maybe, and then they call it like Mercedes used to one of them might not stay around for the season following that as we go into 26. I know they've got multi-year contracts, but that means nothing. It means nothing in this sport.
Brian: 2026 Oscar Piestri lines up on the grid for Haas. No, I'm just kidding. That's a joke. I'm totally not.
Rob: I mean, if you really wanted to go down the silly season in advance and people keep saying how Max is going to be heading to Mercedes in 2026, and you've got the open Red Bull seat, it depends on how things go. Maybe you could see one of the papaya boys moving across there because if they're going to treat them both equally, that just history shows that just doesn't work.
Brian: Now, something has to give. You're totally right. And that now that is a gauntlet. Marcus Erickson, who nailed the silly season a year and a half ago during summer, if you can come out with 2026 silly season now in 24 and get some of it right, buddy, then you will be the Nostradamus of F1 until then you're just better than the rest of us at figuring it out.
Rob: So we'll move on now to a back group preview. But if you did think of any other partnerships, either the clear number one twos or the juggling of two kind of number one drivers, then just get in touch on socials and shout out for being wrong and not naming the ones that you were thinking of. So next week, Azerbaijan, back on track, oh, back who baby, oh man, the boys are back who in town.
Brian: And there is the title of the episode
Rob: 51 laps of a 3.73 mile circuit, which by it has 20 corners, it's a street circuit. It's got the nice little nice little tour of the castle. Love the cast of corner. Love it. I absolutely love it. Um, it's only been held six times, I think it was maybe it was seven because I did copy and paste this from last year.
Brian: The European Grand Prix was in 16. And then it became the Azerbaijan Grand Prix in the 70s.
Rob: Don't think they did a COVID 20. So the math out, if you can't count it straight away. Ah, okay. Well, you know, there we go. So what have we had here?
We've had lots and lots of crashes. We had Valtteri back in 2017 took Lance for second right on the line. If you remember that one, when he came steaming around 21, Lancer Max had massive blowouts and Lewis had his break magic and checker went on to win, you know, back in an era where we were calling him the street circuit king. Um, we hadn't had any repeat winners for all of this. It was just because it was a relatively new track. It had been different winner, different winner, different winner. Uh, then 2022, uh, Max one, which meant that we actually got a repeat winner, but it wasn't Max.
Oh, shock horror. Um, last year, if you remember, we had Charles on pole. Um, Max got passed in pretty easy, but we had a safety car caused by that driver. If you remember him, Nick Deverese.
Brian: Nick, I do remember. I remember where he crashed to and how he clipped the wall, then his wheels dangling and then bang. Yeah.
Rob: Um, and that pure, pure luck. I don't mean this in a detrimental way because sometimes it plays out and sometimes it doesn't, but massive luck for Checo because he was in the right place at the right time to get a free pit stop. And then he went on to actually win the race, uh, followed by Max and Charles. Um, this will also be remembered for the moment at the end where, uh, Ocon.
Yeah. Ocon hadn't made his pit stop and they were freaking out about this on the commentary. Cause like, it's a mandatory one stop.
You have to change your compounds. We're on the like the final lap and Ocon hasn't stopped yet. So of course he did, but then all the journalists in the pit lane were running across the pit lanes, take the pictures of the winners coming across the line and Ocon basically had to swerve and slam his brakes on to not have quite a horrible incident in the pit lane with reporters.
Brian: I do remember that. And if you, if you remember also, they digested that situation with him afterwards. And he highlighted the fact that that had happened to Alex. And then Alex said the same thing. It was at Australia where Alex had gone the whole race without changing compounds, came in and he, it wasn't nearly as bad, right? The pit lane in Australia is not as tight as Baku. And there was more space. And he said it was a few photographers milling about that had to jump out of the way. The one in Baku was bad. I totally forgot about this.
Rob: That's a great point. Yeah. It was like, like 14, 15 people.
Brian: It felt like it was a line of people straight across the pit lane. Yeah.
Rob: Yeah. It could have been, could have been really bad. So yeah, repeat winners. It's just Sergio with two in 21 and 23. I don't see him making it a hat trick. I do not.
Brian: I'm just gonna say I don't see him making a hat trick nor a Red Bull winning either. Yeah.
Rob: So repeat constructs. It's Red Bull four and Mercedes two. So you would probably argue you might see a McLaren get added to that list now of winning one.
Brian: And if you want to consider the track, it would be Mercedes three. But that would have been the European Grand Prix 16 because it was Nico.
Speaker 3: So again, it's weird. It's one of the weird tracks where it's not just the non championship stuff that confuses us. It's the name of the race versus the track that holds it, which also confuses us because well, we're easily confused.
But I love this race. Like you nailed it already. A really long pit straight that starts in a different country and then runs all the way through Baku. And then you get a couple of right angle turns, which are always tough to judge.
You get the castle, the old town. I love some of the last couple corners before you come back down towards the pit straight. They're hard angles to judge. There's a little bit of a decline on the road.
Rob: Is that the one where you always see the camera angle from behind? They come around and kiss the curb on the inside. And then it's almost they're always always bring out the Amazon width to measurement because it's always about like two mil.
Brian: There's a couple of those on this, but there's one of them towards the end where they do that. And the drivers know it's a high speed straight. One of the first times I ever really realized drivers awareness of the danger they're in was Lance when he had a blowout.
The same time Max did when he was winning. You remember that the famous picture of him kicking his rear left tire? Yeah. Yeah. Well, prior to that, Lance had had a blowout much earlier on that straight, but he was stuck sideways.
Right in the straight. And he's basically yelling for a red flag because he knows their cars come around the corner about to put the pedal down and he did not want to be in harm's way. And I'd never really thought of it that way.
I don't know why. But of course, and we've seen that with George in Australia since and other drivers since calling for red flag, not from a racing perspective, from a safety perspective. So again, this is a really hard track for the drivers to run. It is fun. It is dangerous in terms of you can't make a mistake or you'll be in the barrier and your race is done. So it'll be it'll be it's high risk, high reward.
I can't wait. I love Baku. And yes, for Renato out there. Yes, every year we have to mention this when we first started and you came on, we said if we ever made it big enough to go to Baku, we would get you a spot with us. We have not forgotten you, Renato.
Rob: Yeah, on that year when we finally go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't hold your breath, Renato. It could be a while.
Rob: well, I can't remember if DRS does DRS annoy me here. I can't remember. I can't remember if DRS just puts you into the zone for that first turn 90 degree or whether it's a push to pass type circuit.
Brian: I can't remember. But what will be interesting to see because of Red Bull kind of being very vocal about instability in the car is the issue at the moment. Can't risk that here.
Rob: I mean, this is safety car waiting to happen. If you if that front end, if it's understeering a bit and you the corner, the you and I are both thinking of you, the front end goes wandering out a little bit there and doesn't want to play nicely and turn in, there isn't a runoff zone to correct it. So the interesting to see what Red Bull can do in terms of trying to put right those downgrades and try and get back to where they were. Maybe they ace it.
Maybe they know exactly what happened. They take all the relevant bits off and we get back to Max being the front. If we don't, I know we'll do our official predictions midweek, but you know, we're looking quick and this circuit, reward speed. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I don't know where I want to hope that Ferraris weren't Monza only upgrades. I'm looking forward to seeing that they prove you wrong, but I'm not sure I'm going to be putting too much emphasis on them when I do my midweek predictions.
Brian: I mean, it is hard, right? Because you got to look at McLaren's consistency and their ability to race at just about every track so far. And then you look at Ferrari, as you say, who came out of the tail end of the top teams to have their Monza success. Is it Monza specific? Mercedes, who has looked dreadful at times in the race, but then done all right in the quali before it, or looked dreadful in quali and then done all right with the race pace.
And I can never figure out what the heck's going, like how are you good at one, one week and bad at the other than next. And then of course, Red Bull, as you say, I mean, it's going to be really fascinating to see what happens. I will just say this though, like if you guys are watching and having fun, just I always love the couple things that has happened here. And I do have the audio. I actually didn't play one of them before.
First of all, Charles stuffed it right by the castle early on in his Ferrari career. I am stupid. I am stupid. One of the greatest radio messages of all time.
That is a banger. That was I think 2019. And then if you go back before that, Grozian in the Haas under a safety car lost control and put it into the wall and then says, I think Ericsson hit us. He was nowhere near you.
No, we're near him. Yeah, I remember. They got a great camera shot of Roman all by himself goes right into the wall and then has the audacity to get on the radio with. I don't think he did. And so that the couple of the greatest team radios of all time from Baku.
Rob: Well, so, um, yeah, that's that. I think it's time for you to do your thing. Wrap us up and play the music.
Brian: Sounds great. Everyone, we can't wait to talk to you all in one week's time after the Azerbaijan Grand Prix. Enjoy it. It's an awesome track. I hope we have some great on track action and we'll talk to you in a week's time. Be well, be safe. Take care, everybody.
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